Athletes & Experts (Productive attitude !?!) « Thread Started on Aug 29, 2011, 7:31pm »
Hello Aw-Friends ,
Unfortunately there happened a lot of misunderstanding and false conclusions between Engin Terzi and me to say the least!.
Sometimes things like this happens, but i will not ignore it cause there is no conflict from my side at all and it would be better to try to solve and learn from it together..cause i learned so far that every potential problem contains a chance of possible "development" in it also! but burning bridges is to easy and is clearly not what i am looking for at all!.
I want to answer it ASAP (that i try right now) with good intentions separately to the original thread, cause things that suddenly came up there had nothing to do with the original thread there and are off-topic but not insignificant.
First i want to thank everybody that told me their view on this via PMs and emails and are supporting a better understanding for and between all Armwrestlers of our big and strong community!. (Feel free to share your productive thoughts or other good sources for further education of athletes & coach's )
@Engin: I really hope that we can solve this..you make a big mistake about me from the 1 day i joined the Board but anyway if i realize during any conversation or the following conversations..based on "good and reproducible cases" that i for one made a mistake somewhere on the road i will admit and ask honestly for apology..People that knows me, knows that for sure!. In my life i am the only one that can change my attitude and you are the only one that can change yours if needed.(BTW: i can not answer so quick so thanks for patient and remember always that thinks could get lost in translation always but i will be honest and direct to you everywhere...but please if possible read it all with less rapid emotions involved and answer me then....thanks)
****************************
To not just make an another vicious circle that no one needs i prefer to come with a little toolbox at the begining (to read) for all of us that is open for everybody to add more to it!. This way we can not only offending each other like it happens to often in the past but talking/wanting a attitude change on the other hand...No.. we would/could really workeach for themselves and together to make a better understanding and better behavior toward each other for tomorrow for every athlete and coach and expert possible.
That way our energy is not lost and we (everyone at every level) could play an important roll for our future athletes and the armwrestling itself.
We can still fight hardcore on the table and talk controversy for fights and fire those fights up...this is self-evident and you my friends know, that i am for big fun and entertainment for sure...but i think respectful and productive athlete behavior is necessary on the board on the other hand also for sure.
There is a lot of good things in the www. here are just some good introduction links to some points around this subject to start with for everyone that is interested in this things that will be useful on the road:
This is a very good question ...thanks for asking our opinions on this Engin.
Here are my reasons why i think that way:
1-Because you/we have the utmost respect for john, we can not place the only person (Devon Larratt) that won so dominant against John finally (No matter how and why).And in fact never lost in a battle after that day (No matter in witch frequency he fights even though we all wish a higher fight-frequency and over-sea work too)
Engin understands it for some reason (could be a possible translation or similar thing) like this:
1- Because you/we have the utmost respect for john, we can not place the only person (Devon Larratt) that won so dominant against John finally (No matter how and why).
AK,when did you read that i said because i have utmost respect for John i said this.please discuss with sense.
I thought ...hmmm ...okay he didn´t got my point so i wrote this even though i was very surprised how you can even take it that way and why you behaving like that..so i decide to wrote you this:
AK,when did you read that i said because i have utmost respect for John i said this.please discuss with sense.
Please...What??... ...No where Engin!.You had different reasons and other have similar or different reasons [u]for the general "utmost respect" of a lot of people for JOHN B.worldwide but that was not the point i tried to say!.[/u]
This had to be a really bad translation problem otherwise i don´t know how you can take it that way!. Just because you don´t understand what i meant doesn´t mean that i am writing this things without Sense. .Maybe you should try to ask before judging my sense!.I doubt that you even can Judge my Sense based on this..really... ..Not only because how you are answering to me sounds with less sense.BTW: why are you judging me so quick anyway ?? (it is really fantastic how you are able to do that) ...Please ask before judging.
I was not disputing or discussing something about you I was happy that you asked us/others on it.. it was just one of my first opinions why i said No on this Thread!. You really got it out of the context what i meant...
I will give it a try: [b]In my 1-reason in my post above i meant that we all (at least a lot of person if not all) have a utmost respect for John B. (No matter based on what personal reason) and because of that we all should accept the final winner (for a longer period of time) against John Brzenk 25 Years of domination (we all know that John B. was not the "perfect storm as he can be" that day) so to give the final winner (Devon Larratt) an extra special credit for being the man (until proved otherwise) gives John B much more active credit at the same time even so he is not competing right now it means that he still ( ..this is for the man..the Armwrestling legend John B. if he is reading this..who knows ?!) is an active benchmark in that context even now.Other point under my reason Nr.1 was that Devon never lost (right handed) since also. [/b] There is definitely some sense to think about behind this if you give it a chance to understand and it has nothing to do with what you wrote or not wrote and of course how you will decide or not decide to act in the end...We appreciate your asking anyway.
I really hope you understand my 1.point how i meant it now better!.
We should always staying respectful in a eye-height position with each other during a conversation.And this is the only way to do a good conversation IMO! between Athletes whether unbelievable beginner or an unbelievable legend.
We will see what happens...your ranking is pretty reasonable to a lot of people that i was talking to so far anyway...Keep up the good job Engin. Thank you!.
Have a Nice day Engin Have a Nice day everybody
A.K
I was pretty sure that if you give it a factual try to understand, then there should be no misunderstanding about what i actually meant there..
BUT
...for some very strange reasons you still came up with this and even adding a word into my post that i never wrote and never meant look here:
are you not the one who said " just because you have utmost respect for John we can not place Devon ...." ?
so you are the one who misjudge my post.
To answer it here to you: No, i never said that and no where meant that the way you understood it and i am not misjudging your post and i never meant "Just because" i meant "because" and that means a complete different context. "because" means something else (like i described enough above that you totally not understanding & ignoring so far) and it is of course accurate to say: that the word just because would give the whole meaning of the sentence a different direction in that context.But i could not even think to write such a thing as a "reason" to make a point.. even if i would try.. .
what makes no sense is that you to think that i thought Zloty winner should take no 1 spot just because i have utmost respect for John.
So I never thought something like that, here you are clearly taking it wrong and if you look at it clinical enough you can really see that you done wrong to me I am still not mad at you cause i have a strong peace inside but You just see me or things just the way you want to see them and are often offended for no reason. I hope you realize and change this before stepping too quick to offending and disrespecting others that have no bad intentions and never disrespected you!.
Then here you go further to start with totally unnecessary things and later on blow up behavior that had nothing to do with the misunderstanding itself, here just an quick example (i left the worse ones for now very consciously ) :
BTW who are "WE"? are you the spokesman of the board ?
No i am not the spokesman of the board. But i am an Athlet of the Board that loves armwrestling and paid my due for it already. And i surely can at least say "We" in the name of all my students. AAMOF i am a good and respected coach in Germany at least on the other hand for sure.No matter if you know or you don´t know about it so far. You accepting me or not doesn´t change anything for the people that really know me and supporting me.
You Engin are not allowed to determine atleast for me what i should do or say and what i am or not am..and on the other hand you are way out of line on this so far.
This has to be enough for now to mark a line with what intentions i came in to this.
I will answer to all your other false and bad accusations and questions soon enough but my time frame is limited for now...thanks for patient and i wish everybody health and success!.
And for you Engin i really wish the best "Peace" in life...no matter what happens...and how inappropriate you had behaving to me so far.If you give me enough time you will realize that you see me completely wrong..the answer is easier than you think til now!.
“When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached, don’t adjust the goals, adjust the action steps.” -Confucius “Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, add what is uniquely your own.” - Bruce Lee “Peace cannot be kept by force;it can only be achieved by understanding.” - Albert Einstein “Breath...see the world...imagine...now decide by your self...breath again...” - Unknown
“When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached, don’t adjust the goals, adjust the action steps.” -Confucius “Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, add what is uniquely your own.” - Bruce Lee “Peace cannot be kept by force;it can only be achieved by understanding.” - Albert Einstein “Breath...see the world...imagine...now decide by your self...breath again...” - Unknown
enginterzi Guest
Re: Athletes & Experts (Productive attitude !?!) « Reply #2 on Aug 30, 2011, 7:09pm »
A.K,
i have taken time all day as you suggested and i try to answer you by hoping that you will understand.
i wrote;
"John has my utmost respect for hunting the best ones in anywhere in the world without caring about which organization holds the event.it just shows the courage and confidence of him and this again made him the best ever whose place will not be taken by anyone that i know of today."
above i pointed that i have utmost respect for John and bridged my words to him being the best ever and wrote nothing about the current rankings in such words of mine.
then you wrote;
"1- Because you/we have the utmost respect for john, we can not place the only person (Devon Larratt) that won so dominant against John finally (No matter how and why).And in fact never lost in a battle after that day (No matter in witch frequency he fights even though we all wish a higher fight-frequency and over-sea work too) "
above your self somehow related my utmost respect for John, with Devon's current ranking
then i wrote;
"AK,when did you read that i said because i have utmost respect for John i said this.please discuss with sense."
above i suggested you to discuss with sense .
also the only difference between "just because" and "because" in our subject is "just because" contains only 1 reason while "because" still contains 1 known reason (since a second reason other than my utmost respect for John, is not mentioned) BUT none of these still do not change the fact that for me to have utmost respect for John (about him being the best ever) had nothing to do with Devon's current ranking as you wrote.
again...
i wrote;
"John has my utmost respect for hunting the best ones in anywhere in the world without caring about which organization holds the event.it just shows the courage and confidence of him and this again made him the best ever whose place will not be taken by anyone that i know of today."
you wrote;
"1- Because you/we have the utmost respect for john, we can not place the only person (Devon Larratt) that won so dominant against John finally"
nothing about the fact changes no matter how much you try to confuse the situation with "just because" and "because" type of things.
if you still do not understand it then i see no sense to discuss about it from my side.
i am glad that you have people around you that respects your coaching..btw you coach about armwrestling ?
i answered you as peaceful as possible..i did my best to not to say all i think.
Sorry that i could not answer til today due to personal issues and my time management at this moment of the year..i was not forgetting you and that issue and it is natural and correct to my understanding to follow what i am saying before and answer to those questions and remarks in a proper and correct way!.
On a personal Note: ( at the moment & in the past weeks i could not cut that much time to write and answer here as i would like to do..sorry for that but things gonna change soon..but i am enjoying all of your messages and good thoughts everybody..there are a lot of active & good contributions here on the board lately that makes me proud being in this community..keep on track my Aw-friends)
C y soon..
A.K
Besides of that...right now there is an another reason for me to not get in to things that is written there at this moment too.
And thats because i know you are in your preparation for the WAF.
I respect that as a Aw-friend in general and as a coach i am.So i always give my best to be as timed to situations as it is possible(its a way i work and has nothing to do with you in person or this particular issue ...i would act like that for any other Aw-friend that are preparating themselves for something in the same way).
Even so you "probably" could say, it is not my business , i also wish you the best preparation and this includes to have it without any kind of possible "new" misunderstanding or "bad mood" (People that know me so far, know that it will never be my intention to bring bad mood for you and myself or anyone else, cause i love having a "good mood" and this i hope you know already after some time passing now about myself for sure).
So i decide to let it go for now and step back from what/who was right or wrong but i will give you your answers for 100% as i give you my word.
wish you the best possible preparation and may all your past injuries heal as much as it is possible ....good luck Engin and have a good trip.
“When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached, don’t adjust the goals, adjust the action steps.” -Confucius “Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, add what is uniquely your own.” - Bruce Lee “Peace cannot be kept by force;it can only be achieved by understanding.” - Albert Einstein “Breath...see the world...imagine...now decide by your self...breath again...” - Unknown
So i decide to let it go for now and step back from what/who was right or wrong but i will give you your answers for 100% as i give you my word. wish you the best possible preparation and may all your past injuries heal as much as it is possible ....good luck Engin and have a good trip. A.K
Hello,
According to this and because i don´t want to take those "misunderstandings" in to the new happy year. here comes your answers:
I hope that you take the time like i took to think about all aspects of what and how things happened and let us admit each for them-self to our "possible" mistakes, so we can be a good example for our Athletes of future. And please don´t forget that there was no conflict from my side from the beginning and i am writing this to you like an Aw-friend still would.even so a lot of your text there http://www.northeastboard.com/index.cgi?....ad=22772&page=3 sounds very disrespectful & discreditable as a Person & Athlete to me.And was not necessary at all cause i was whether offending you nor preaching to you at all.
You asked everybody..and i shared my take on it as one of many with 4.diff points (and not only that 1.point that bothered you because of misunderstanding the content).i talked to people about those 4-points and they understand and see it the same way like i stated there and described in detail in my second post there again...some had other additional points...and thats ok and good.so there was nothing about it as an expert opinion (look how you hammered there on the expert stuff)and the unnecessary things that happens there unfortunately.
Afterwards i could see what probably caused the misunderstanding beside of many other false dispatched opinion of yourself about my self.but a healthy discussion was not possible at that moment with you.so i had to shoulder it there.
Engin..the whole way you see me at all is totally incorrect from the beginning (maybe because you could never find me in results or rankings..idk).but its a sad way of thinking and coming to conclusions about a person you don´t know so fast (because there could be 1000 reasons that you don´t know).
i never thought about excluding you when i ask everyone's opinion even though it is obvious that you dont know much about armwrestling.... i mean no disrespect,everyone should have an opinion but it should sound as heavy as what they know which comes from what they have accomplished in someways (does not have to be competing success but can also be coaching,organising,directing etc)..... to have an eye to eye discussion is possible only if the unbelievably beginner (you) knows where he is at.whenever the unbelievable beginner sounds like an expert on the subject that he is unbelievably beginner of then obviously it is not possible to discuss with him as he is not looking to develope what he knows but tries to preach a subject that he is unbelievably beginner (not because of your career as i have never heard of you as an armwrestler- no disrespect but seriously do you even pull?).
First of all...maybe you never thought about it.. but you did exclude me by the way you act towards me and think about me obviously. Just Because you say or feel that i don´t know much about armwrestling doesn´t makes me automatically not knowing about armwrestling.some things that are so called "obvious" to you or me could stay hidden for a life time Engin.
At no point have i ever claimed to you in any chats, to be an expert.if my text sounds to you that way or have some good contents, then let me thank you for the compliment and let you know its all heartedly what i really feel & know & worked for on & off the table.
You put me in the unbelievable Armwrestling-beginner spot not me and i am not a beginner at this board also.I am here constantly as a quest-member since 2004 and am pretty good aware of most things and ways this board took along the road from the beginning.
After years of doing exactly those things that you wrote above such as (coaching,organizing,directing) in 2009 (after multiple times Florian Kellersman a good German armwrestler asked me to do) i finaly decided to become an active member of the NEB Aw-community to have fun with you guys on the one hand but to bring in my part of positive contribution for our sport on the other hand too. I did this so far the best i could and learned my lessons so far and am thankful for it everyday.
About the Question of pulling by myself:
Unfortunately I was not starting armwrestling at the teen-age but i am happy with what i have achieved so far...cause i define & understand success & knowledge differently as you Engin.(one of our biggest thought difference that i realized during the years)
But fortunately i was always involved in some kind of sport my whole life (such as gymnastics/swimming as kid..and later martial arts..boxing) I started with armwrestling in Aug of 2004, but the truth was that there was nobody with the quality and sports feeling that i had & was looking for in Berlin to learn from...
Because of that and the fact that i had trained my body & mind pretty good and was always confident for the challenge of life & sport, i took the journey to learn from the best where and when ever i could reach them and used my self-educated skills that i had proved years before, for the rest of the task back home.I was even so crazy about armwrestling (please newcomers & amateurs don´t try this kind of things at all ) and learning as fast as possible from the best that i even took part in Zloty 2004 and was with Cvetan,Rustam,Chad,Janis and many other good Aw.s in the 78 kg kategorie and had no real chance against the elite, but winning there was/could not be my main goal from the already mentioned perspective: But from that day i knew first hand how strong the elite are and learned a lot from them during/afterwards too. Here the results of 2004: http://www.armwrestling.com/zt04.html
Things like this board or arm-tv was in fact beside of all those trial & error that i had to go tru a really good help those days.
So just after some weeks/month i won a lot of matches that i will share on a tube channel maybe someday..other fighters from other German cities respected what i performed a lot and i learned from them also.some experienced Aws from other cities started to talk that i would reach the top very quick when things goes like that.
After winning some tourneys and amateur title and being in German-tv-interviews as a comet some people thought i was, i prepared myself extremely hard to become the German champion in earlier 2006. In those days i pinned a lot of heavier German champions and they had no doubt that i would had at least a good chance to go for a title and shoot for the stars probably after that...then...unfortunatly and because of some mistakes that i made those days that no one but me is responsible of, i injured myself very bad (i have to deal with it until today)....anyway...Engin thats why you could not find a career of me so far as a puller.(i am pretty sure you would have liked to see my aw-fights). But from 2005 til today i done not a bad job over here as coach (trained already some German-champions) organizer of armwrestling events..helping/creating & keeping armwrestling clubs alive in the city (so everybody can do the sport the right way here now) and last but not least still staying a fan i was of this sport at the same time.I know there are people with more accomplishment for sure but this is all what i got so far.
you are an ignorant person about armwrestling but what is worser is you are not aware of this.even Mac Telle knew his limits about armwrestling but you ...
i am not looking for anything as i can clearly see what you are,a second Dixon Glory case only with more ignorance.
yes i am a very overbearing person whenever i meet a person like yourself who thinks that he is a genious who can know about something which he has not much to do with.
are nothing but incorrect and disrespectful things to me my Aw-friend...seriously...what should i other then this say or think !?!.
please stop comparing people with each other. You are an unique person so is Dixon glory (like him or not) and everybody else also.i can never be like you and you will never be like me.we are walking each for themselves in our own shoes..let us be Aw-friends instead of disrespecting & name calling and learn from each other. we are both young enough and intelligent enough to change direction...lets take a second chance.
no need you to quit the board because thanks to people as yourself, knowledgeable guys of this sport slowly leaving this board to people as yourself who are the nirvanas of our sport.
Finally let me tell you this that no knowledgeable & adult person will ever leave the board because of me or what i say or wrote so far. (there might be other reasons).cause if you go tru all my post til today you will find nothing but "respectful", "positive" and "motivating" things..thats a fact.
I am trusting the people & athletes that told me i am on track so far and never hurt anybodies feelings and if i make a mistake on the road i will admit honestly to it as soon as i can.cause life is so beautiful but short. We are adult person and have to stay for our decisions.don´t give me the responsibility of yours or others choice/decisions in life or even shortcomings. There is no such a thing like "to people as yourself" in my athletic understanding no matter in which skill-level-category you put me to.
Engin,...indepentendly from what i felt from you, If there is 0.099% chance that there is something (they could always be something) from my side that could had hurt your feelings without me realizing it during all what happened before/during those conversations, then i want to ask you here for apology as an Athlete & Aw-friend.
good luck and best wishes for what ever you like to follow in life.
“When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached, don’t adjust the goals, adjust the action steps.” -Confucius “Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, add what is uniquely your own.” - Bruce Lee “Peace cannot be kept by force;it can only be achieved by understanding.” - Albert Einstein “Breath...see the world...imagine...now decide by your self...breath again...” - Unknown
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and fire those fights up...this is self-evident and you my friends know, that i am for big fun and entertainment for sure...but i think respectful and productive athlete behavior is necessary on the board on the other hand also for sure.
...okay 
...No where Engin!.You had different reasons and other have similar or different reasons [u]for the general "utmost respect" of a lot of people for JOHN B.worldwide but that was not the point i tried to say!.[/u]
Logged
...well i could show you posts double or three time this long 
